Running a successful practice, no matter if it’s a PPO or FFS practice, requires solid leadership

Dr. Jeff Grove: Yeah, no problem. Ben, thank you so much for having me on the podcast. It was great meeting you in Washington, DC. We met at the Alliance of Independent Dentists meeting, and that was such a cool group. I came out of that with just so many great new friends and relationships, and you’re certainly one of ’em, Ben. I’ve appreciated working together with you on some clients here over the last couple weeks since we met.

Yeah, to answer your question, I am, yeah, I’m out here in Steamboat Springs, Colorado, kind of embracing the second half of my career. You know, my first half of my career, I ran the gamut just like everybody does, I think. And I’ve done a lot of different things. And when you run the gamut in a profession, you learn so much from all the ups and downs and things that you go through.

I graduated from dental school in 2004, so a little over 20 years ago. I went to the University of Pennsylvania, got a great education, but you come out of dental school as one of my professors said, a competent beginner at best. And I was a competent beginner clinically at best. And like a lot of dentists, I knew nothing about running a business, and really focused the first part of my career, like I say, the first six, seven, eight years on just learning how to be a decent, solid clinical dentist and really being able to provide great care for my patients. That’s really, I think, all you have the bandwidth for when you get out of dental school. So that was kind of like phase one. And I got a little bit bored with that.

You know, I’m someone that, once I do something for a while, I’m kind of like, “All right, what’s next?” So I sort of then really, I’m sure you hear this a lot, Ben I dove into, “Well, what’s there to learn about business? And what’s there to learn about leadership? And what’s there to learn about HR and marketing?” You know, maybe I’d like to have a bigger office someday and love to have an associate. So I started thinking about all those things and realized that I needed to get training on all that. So I dove into that full tilt at kind of this middle stage of my career and just started learning everything I could about all of those aspects of dentistry and running a practice. I had my ups and downs working on implementing things and learned a lot from failures, successes.

Long story short, I ended up taking my one little practice and turning it into one really big practice. I mean, my first big move in that way we had one big office. It’s 10,000 square feet. We had 18 operatories.

Ben Tuinei: Wow.

Dr. Jeff Grove: And we added five more to it in an orthodontics department. It was just this really big supergroup office. It was kind of like my pride and joy. We had a great team of associate doctors, great leaders, just an incredible practice. That was back in Pennsylvania. Then we ended up building even more, and we actually started our own small DSO. We built that up to 10 practices. We had ortho, we had pediatrics, we had general dentistry. And I think at our peak, we had 22 or 23 doctors, multispecialty 10 locations, almost 170 employees.

And gosh, we had some good times and some bad. We suffered through COVID, like a lot of dentists listening to this podcast did, I just learned so much. Eventually, I moved on from that, sold it, came out to Colorado, kind of did a reboot. I dove back into public health, just getting back to the service component of dentistry taking care of patients. Northwest Colorado has a really big need for dentistry, especially for the population that struggles to pay for it and find access to it. So I discovered a new passion for that.

Like I said, I’m always kind of changing channels. That gave me the opportunity to start teaching at CU Dental. I get to teach their fourth-year students up here in Steamboat. They come to me, and I get to go down there and lecture from time to time.

And I just became inspired with coaching. I started coaching the high school football team as an assistant coach. And I’m like, all right combine coaching and just all this knowledge that you build. Not knowledge that you build by just having all successes, but knowledge that you build by falling flat on your face in certain aspects of your career too. And just trying to take all that and turn that into a coaching practice where I get to help the next generation.

So there it is. I know it’s a big mouthful , but

Ben Tuinei: No, that’s

Dr. Jeff Grove: Kind of what led me to where I’m..

Ben Tuinei: That is so awesome. You remind me of a few others that did the same thing. You know, you have well, I don’t know if Dr. Andrew Mata is still running that big group out there in Pennsylvania. And then another friend of mine built a group in North Carolina and then sold it and moved to Utah. And he’s looking at sort of coaching, but from a different angle— a mindset angle.

And I love it when doctors that have been successful in building group practices, selling them, get into the coaching side of things, because there are so many things that you learn in such a small period of time. Right? A small window of time—

Dr. Jeff Grove: Yeah.

Ben Tuinei: —where you really grind it, and you learn so many unique things from that level of having a huge team . And I imagine all kinds of headaches and fires to put out every day, you know?

Dr. Jeff Grove: Absolutely.

Ben Tuinei: Super excited to pick your brain today, ’cause I think your information about leadership in dentistry, understanding the business of dentistry, is definitely something that our listeners are very hungry for.

So, Dr. Jeff, as you know, we help doctors and team members untangle themselves with this whole concept of dealing with dental insurance. So how do you help clients, and what’s sort of your focus when it comes to coaching dental clients in the industry?

Dr. Jeff Grove: Yeah, thanks, Ben. A couple focuses— and, you know, the work you guys are doing in the industry, untangling dental insurance— oh man, I mean, it’s just mind-blowing the changes that you have to go through. And it’s so valuable for our profession to have businesses like yours and professionals like yours.

But yeah, building on the theme of untangling, I mean, I really do the same thing as you guys do with insurance. I try to untangle problems for clients. I try to figure out what’s keeping ’em up at night and turn these frustrations that they’re having— whatever they are— into breakthroughs. And if I can’t fix their problem, I’ll refer them to someone who can. And, you know, there are so many great leaders and mentors out there in this space, and so many great consultants that can be so helpful for dentists that are really writing their own script and creating their own destinies.

I love untangling practice leadership. I would say that’s probably one of my passions. You know, trying to help dentists that are practice owners or associate dentists figure out what leadership looks like in their practice and where they are currently in their stage of life.

I love helping— you know, owner doctors especially— untangle staff and team challenges. Figuring out what’s going on with their culture. Do they have a culture? Is their culture good? Is it not good? Are they attracting great talent? Do they know how to retain great talent once they have it? Are they able to infuse energy and leadership into that culture to keep it going?

Sometimes I find that there really is no culture, or it’s bad, and we just kind of need to blow it up and start from scratch. That’s one of my favorite terms that I learned from a mentor— it’s called creative destruction. Sometimes you just have to blow something up and start out.

Ben Tuinei: So—

Dr. Jeff Grove: That’s sometimes—

Ben Tuinei: That’s how you do it in the islands. Like, in fact, you hear about that concept—slash and burn, right? For farmers?

Dr. Jeff Grove: Yeah.

Ben Tuinei: Yes. And it’s all about— yeah, it’s all about balancing certain chemical levels within the soil, just like managing a pool or a hot tub. You know, you have to have the right balance there in an effort for you to have an environment where things can thrive. You know, a—

Dr. Jeff Grove: Hundred percent. I’m gonna take that. I love analogies, Ben. So, I mean, I love it. It’s just like slash and burn sometimes. You just have to go in there and wreck a whole bunch of things and start from scratch, but the process is worth it. It takes work.

But, you know, one of the— one of the speakers, Ben, I don’t remember— at the last— Bob Spiel, he said—

Ben Tuinei: Oh, yeah.

Dr. Jeff Grove: “It’s worth it.” That was just something that stuck with me. When Bob got up and gave his presentation, he said, “You know, it’s a lot of work and there are easier paths. But fixing some of these things— whether it’s through slash and burn or just taking what you have and rebuilding it in a better way or improving it— it pays huge dividends.”

Ben Tuinei: Yeah. Yeah. No, I love that. I think a lot of us— especially those that are considered the owners of their practices or businesses— we fear change. You know, you sort of get into this cycle of being comfortable, right? And a lot of times, the danger of that is when there are signs, like what we’re going through right now with economic downturns— and the signs of that have been showing since 2020, and they sort of kind of managed themselves for a couple of years— but the bigger signs of that started just about two and a half years ago as I’ve been looking at the numbers.

And so, you just have to be aware. And if it requires slashing and burning and rebuilding, you know, that’s what I love.

You know, when we’re in the islands, when we would prepare the soil for new growth, not only did we slash and burn, but we conditioned the soil. And the best thing about conditioning in the South Pacific is— the best way to do it is you take soil from volcanic areas that have never been planted on, and you just mix it with the ground that you’re trying to prepare. And now you have an environment where things just thrive.

You know, our tomatoes were huge. In fact, our tomatoes grew year-round because we didn’t have wintertime.

Dr. Jeff Grove: Wow.

Ben Tuinei: They would quite literally be trees. And we would actually wrap them around coconut trees, and they would just grow. They would grow forever, you know, as long as we took care of them. And they produced giant, giant tomatoes.

So the part about resetting, slashing and burning, and not necessarily starting all over— is taking the information and resources that you already have and just trying to build something better. You know?

Dr. Jeff Grove: Try to grow the biggest tomatoes you can grow, right?

Ben Tuinei: Or bananas, you know. Sometimes—

Dr. Jeff Grove: Yeah, sure. You know, sometimes it’s just figuring out what you’re really trying to grow, what you’re trying to do with your business. And I’m finding that the businesses that have more specificity, a little bit more focus in their practices— I think, to your point too— they’re gonna do better through some of these economic challenges and changes that we’re having.

You know, the ones that are focused on— like I said— either bananas or tomatoes. Sometimes you just can’t do it all.

Ben Tuinei: That’s right. That’s right. Find your niche.

So that kind of leads me to the next question, Dr. Jeff, which is sort of the area of challenges we’re seeing right now. You do see a lot of challenges emerging in dental practices as a result of the pandemic— post-pandemic— with all kinds of issues as far as finding talent, you know, replacing a hygienist or whatever it may be. But what are you seeing among your clientele on some of the challenges that they’re experiencing?

Dr. Jeff Grove: Yeah, there’s— to your point— there’s been so many turning points recently in the last few years with dentistry. Whether it’s the pandemic, or just shifts in the demographics of dental students, the influx of corporations and private equity, economic uncertainty, challenges, ups and downs— costs going up for dentists tremendously while insurance reimbursements and payments are going down or staying level.

I think the biggest challenge I see, Ben— if I had to summarize it into kind of one statement— is they just don’t have a focused plan. The dentists, when I first start working with them, talking with them, they’re not sure what they want out of their practice or out of their life as a dentist. They’re kind of just, a lot of times, trudging along, you know, punching the clock. Kind of like— you remember that old commercial— “Time to make the donuts,” you know?

Ben Tuinei: Right.

Dr. Jeff Grove: And they’re just— you gotta be in our age group to remember that commercial, right? Dunkin’ Donuts. But yeah, they lack this specificity of where they want to go, and the intentionality on how they’re going to get there— what actions, what changes are involved.

I mean, insurance— your industry and your business and your focus— is a great example. You’ve chosen to be a consultant in this industry, Ben, and something very specific and very needed. And it just allows you to pour your heart and soul into that and really focus your efforts and your business. And I just see dentists are having a hard time doing that.

Ben Tuinei: Yeah. That’s really interesting. I would say I could relate to that in my early career. You know, as a business owner, I think a lot of young business owners have this “shiny object syndrome.” You know, it’s like— you see the next shiny object and you jump on it, and then the original focus that you were working on gets abandoned, and now you’re not making any progress. You know?

Dr. Jeff Grove: Absolutely. Yeah.

Ben Tuinei: What are some— do you have any specific examples of what you mean by that in terms of having like a set understanding or objective or goal on what you want to do as a practice owner?

Dr. Jeff Grove: Yeah, I was—great example. Last week I was talking to a client, and we were having one of his coaching sessions. He hired me to do a practice analysis and kind of lay out a roadmap for, let’s say, 90 days of improvement—kind of get him on track for where he wants to go. And really, we’ve spent our time so far figuring out where he wants to go.

And the conversation—I think this is the example I want to share with you—the conversation went from me peeling back the layers with him and talking through what his vision is. He’s been out of dental school for about six years, and he said, “I want to be known”—I love this statement, I love when we got him to this point—he said, “I want to be known as the dentist in my region for high-end cosmetic rehabs for patients. Full mouth cosmetic, you know, makeovers.”

He said, “I love the detail work, I love smile design, I want to take more classes on that, I want to be really good at that, and I want to be the guy in this region. That if you need a full smile makeover—veneers, or a ‘teeth-in-a-day,’ an implant-supported denture, crowns, whatever—I want to be the guy.”

I said, “That’s great, and we’ve got to focus on that.” But in the same conversation, he brought up that he had been approached about maybe adding some Medicaid participation and wanted to talk that through with me. And this is already a practice that is highly PPO and insurance-driven.

So it just— you know, that’s the example. This bell went off. That’s like the most valuable action step that this doctor can take—pick one or the other, and come up with a real focus on what he wants for his practice.

And that’s where we are now. And it was such a breakthrough. Because you know as well as I do, those two models just don’t mix. And if you’re trying to be everything to everybody— you know, honestly, you can’t focus on everything. If you try to focus on everything— if you focus on this huge gamut of “I want to take Medicaid patients, but I also want to be the super high-end cosmetic dentist”— you know, it’s really like the definition of lack of focus, Ben, right? You’re focused on everything, so you’re really, really focused on nothing.

Ben Tuinei: Right. Yeah, I can relate to that. You know, as an organization that helps doctors with credentialing and negotiating PPO fees— we promote that. We know the world of PPO. And whenever we get contacted by doctors that want to do something outside of what we do—whether it be “Hey, we want to join Medicaid,” or “We want to do HMOs,” or “We want to do discount plans”—the temptation for someone like me, especially in a down economy, is “Let’s just take everything and figure it out.”

But I don’t recommend ever doing that, because when you split your focus, it’s so hard to get back. It’s just like dieting, right? When you have one cheat—

Dr. Jeff Grove: That’s good. Yeah.

Ben Tuinei: You go from one cheat meal to a whole cheat day. And that one cheat day turns into the entire weekend. You know, and all that weight loss over the last three months is gone in that one weekend. You know what I mean?

Dr. Jeff Grove: I’ve got kids— I know exactly what you mean. I’ve done that all—

Ben Tuinei: So not only do you have to be committed, you just have to be totally zoned in. And 100%— I guess “committed” is the best word to use—on what you want. Building the practice that you want, which sometimes takes a lot longer than most people think. But in the end, if it’s— I mean, if you continue to lay brick by brick, you’re going to build something beautiful.

So you’re talking about the type of doctors that you work with and the challenges that they’re experiencing. Are you finding that you’re working with more practices that participate with PPO or more fee-for-service, or both?

Dr. Jeff Grove: A big mix. You know, it’s a big mix. I work with practices that are successful with both models. But again, the ones that are the most successful—regardless of the model they’re choosing and where they are on that spectrum—I mean, if this is “take everything” over on this side, and over on this side is “strictly fee-for-service,” the practices that are doing the best, and that are the happiest, and I think are the most stable—especially again, going into an unstable economy—are the ones where that focus lines up with their core abilities and their values.

They’ve established this focus for their practice and where they want to go. It’s knowing what you’re good at. Those practices know what they’re good at. They know what fits their skillset and what fits their M.O.— the way they want to run their practice. And so, my contention is: you can be successful with either model, as long as you’re focused and you run your practice accordingly.

Dr. Jeff Grove: Yeah, exactly. It’s just kind of this moment where—like, and if you’re listening to this podcast and you’re not driving—just kind of lay back and close your eyes and think. There are two very different practices that we’re talking about.

Practice number one is fee-for-service. In general, that practice needs fewer patients. Efficiency is important, but they don’t have to be as fast. They don’t have to do things as quickly. And as I describe this to my clients, I’ll say, “Which one sounds more like you?”

They don’t need to run super lean. These practices need to be excellent in everything they do—from the coffee in the waiting room to the plants outside. They have to be focused on those kinds of details. What I call the “bells and whistles.” Maybe they dip your hands in wax, massage your shoulders, they’ve got TVs… We had one of our fee-for-service offices in Pennsylvania with massaging chairs, TVs on the ceiling—those kinds of amenities.

They have to work harder at documenting and advertising their patient success stories. They might not have a huge hygiene department that constantly pulls the doctor away for checks. They tend to offer a broader variety of higher-end services—orthodontics, sedation, complex surgery, Botox, dermal fillers—because that’s what their target patient base is looking for.

They’re often in smaller, more boutique-style real estate, which comes with higher occupancy costs. But that’s important too—because location matters. They need to be “on Main Street,” so to speak. That’s the fee-for-service model that I see being really successful when it’s well-focused.

Then on the other side, you’ve got the PPO-driven practice. And it’s really the opposite. They need more patients. They rely on a high, steady flow of new patients. Efficiency is critical—not just for the dentist but for the entire team. These offices have to run lean. They don’t need all the bells and whistles.

A lot of times, the patient is coming in because the office is in-network with their PPO. So they’re not necessarily coming for the wax dips or aromatherapy—they’re coming for the convenience and affordability. That practice is successful because it runs high volume. More chairs, more space, associate doctors, and expanded-function team members help with efficiency.

Back in Pennsylvania, we had expanded function dental assistants who were fantastic—hugely helpful in improving our output. Some of our PPO practices were seeing 150 new patients a month. So we had to be laser-focused on efficient diagnosis and treatment while maintaining quality. These offices had robust hygiene departments and were built for throughput.

And you’re exactly right—the marketing cost in a PPO practice is often just the participation itself. That’s what brings people in. If you do good work and participate, the patients will come.

Ben Tuinei: Yeah, absolutely. I’m thinking of a number of examples in my mind of doctors and practice types that relate to what you just said. It kind of sounds like to me that it all boils down to the dentist or practice owner really taking the reins and truly leading the practice to where they want it to be.

I read a book over 20 years ago called Leadership and Self-Deception—it’s a lesser-known leadership book, but I really liked it. And one of the concepts was about “placing your ladder on the right roof.” As a leader, you have to place your ladder on the right roof. The house represents the model of the practice you want to build—your vision—and then it takes leadership to climb that ladder and lead your team and patients there.

But that kind of sums it up, right? Does that capture what you were saying about the different practice models? That it’s all about leadership and direction?

Dr. Jeff Grove: It’s— it’s 100% about getting your ladder on the right roof. You know, as dentists, we wear that white coat, and whether we want to be or not, we are the leaders of our practice. We have to cast the vision. We have to set the tone for the culture. Everybody’s watching you— again, like it or not, it’s just a fact.

And if you’re not taking the time to create the direction, to get up in front of your team and say, “Here’s where we’re going, and here’s what we’re going to do to get there— and come with me”— you know, the moments when that happens in a dental practice, they’re just magical.

You can’t do that, though, unless you know where you’re going. You have to cast that vision. Like you said, you have to put your ladder on the right roof. Figure out where you want to go and be specific and intentional about it.

Ben Tuinei: Yeah. No, I love it. I love it. I imagine that as you’re coaching doctors to become— or to be more aware of different leadership personalities or styles, right?— and things to do as a leader that they should focus on… What do you see among your clientele, as you’re providing that leadership coaching, in terms of how the implementation of those leadership dynamics actually improves practices? Like, what do you think?

Dr. Jeff Grove: It’s a great question. The biggest success stories that I’ve been a part of are the ones where the doctor is willing to change him or herself first. They’re willing to look in the mirror and say, “These are the things I need to work on personally as a leader, in order to inspire my team to want to follow me.”

There’s this moment that I’ve seen on multiple occasions— where a doctor gets up and says something like, “I’m going to make some changes in the practice.” And of course, the team is like, “Ugh…” you know? Because they’re used to hearing that.

And it’s not, “I’m going to hire a consultant and they’re going to come in and fix it, and we’re going to do exactly what they say.” That’s not inspiring.

What is inspiring is when the dentist says, “I’m going to make some changes in the practice— and I’m going to start with myself.”

Dr. Jeff Grove: You are all gonna see a difference in me over the next couple months. I’m taking some classes in leadership, or I’m committed to reading some books, or I’m listening to some podcasts, or I hired a coach, or I’m working with a consultant— but you’re gonna see changes in me: the way I take care of you, the way I cast our vision, the way I communicate with you.

And when you see it, call it out. I want you to notice that I’m different. And I’m going to— when I create that new vision, we are going to look at that vision as a team. We’re gonna embrace it, we’re gonna get on board, and, you know, we’re all gonna do better. We’re gonna be more productive, we’re gonna be more efficient, we’re gonna create a more enjoyable culture. And again, that kind of closing line of like, “Who’s with me?” I mean, that’s what’s inspiring.

When you get to see leaders do something like that— or say something like that— where they say, “I’m willing to start with myself, and I want you guys to come along with me,” and we’re just going to get a lot more specific and intentional about how we run, manage, and create value here in our dental practice— for our patients and for all of you.

Ben Tuinei: Yeah, I love that. It reminds me of… now I never served in the military, but I have a lot of family members that are in it. My sister served at the Pentagon— she’s pretty high up there on the officer side of things for the U.S. Army. I always ask her questions as it pertains to leadership because that’s who she is. She’s like this badass attorney-leader in the military.

And she says that the young lieutenants— the ones who are most successful— the first thing they do is they focus on earning the trust of those they’re leading. Because when you’re dealing with enlisted people— especially high-ranking enlisted folks— you may outrank everyone who’s been serving for 10+ years, but they’re not going to respect you unless you lead by example, right?

And you make sacrifices to show them, “Hey, I’ve been asked to lead you, and I’m gonna do it in a way where I set the example, so you’re not afraid of the direction I want to take us.”

It’s so interesting, Dr. Jeff, that in any business dynamic, that military principle holds true. Like you said, when the leader dives in first, everybody else sees, “Oh, that’s not so bad.” It’s kind of like diving into a murky pool— we did this all the time in Arizona when I was a dumb college student. After heavy rains— and the water’s usually coming down from Colorado — we’d go out to the rivers and jump in.

Some days the water’s clear. Other days it’s not. If it’s a pool you’ve never been in, it takes one person to dive in first to make sure they don’t die , and then everyone else follows. Guess who that guy was growing up? It was me! I’d jump in to check it out, make sure there were no hidden boulders, and then everyone else would jump in too.

I think people are afraid of taking risks. Most employees— and most people in general— are not natural risk-takers. We fear the unknown. So I really love what you mentioned— that leading by example? It works.

Dr. Jeff Grove: Especially dentists— I mean, we are, by nature, wired with this engineering, cautious, detail-oriented mindset. So sometimes you have to— I shouldn’t even say “sometimes”— almost all the time, you have to step out of your comfort zone. You’ve gotta dive into that murkiness, be the first one to jump off the plane and say, “Hey guys, we’re all jumping out of this plane. I don’t know where we’re landing, but I’m going first.”

And you’ve probably heard this metaphor: “Build the parachute on the way down.” We’ll figure it out— but we’ll stick together. And I’m glad you brought all that up, Ben, because that’s one of my favorite leadership metaphors— how the military approaches it. The leader is the first one on the battlefield and the last one to leave.

Makes me think of my brother-in-law, who’s doing his third tour right now in Africa. Phil, thank you for your service— miss ya.

Ben Tuinei: Yes! Yes. Thank you for your service, Phil. That’s awesome. I can tell you’re passionate about leadership and coaching— especially helping dentists and practice owners become the kind of leaders that take their practices to amazing levels.

So what other things are you doing to help your clients grow and thrive?

Dr. Jeff Grove: Uh, whatever— really, whatever they need. I love meeting with potential clients on a call, just to make sure we’re a good fit personality-wise, and that they’re willing to step out of their comfort zone and do some work. I can usually tell pretty quickly whether it’s going to be a successful partnership.

I love working with clients who are motivated to make a change. So it starts with getting to know each other— building that personal relationship.

My coaching business is just me. I don’t have 10 or 12 people working for me. It’s very boutique— you’re going to work directly with me. So we’ve got to make sure we fit.

Some clients just need me to sweep in there— like jumping out of a helicopter— and fix a problem. I call that coaching for performance. Like, “You’ve got a performance issue and you just want help fixing it.” Then we go our separate ways— or maybe we link up in Steamboat at one of our events.

We do have doctors and teams come out here to Steamboat Springs— in winter, spring, fall, whenever— for events. It’s super fun. You get a nice tax-deductible trip to a beautiful place. So sometimes those quick engagements lead to an in-person event here.

But my favorite engagements, Ben, are the ones where we build a relationship and work together over time. I call that coaching for development— versus just coaching for performance. Coaching for development always involves leadership improvement.

Dr. Jeff Grove: It’s going to, you know, involve— it’s gonna touch on all aspects of the dentist’s life: personal, professional, time management, health— both emotional health, physical health— everything. Because really, to thrive, I think when you enter the dental profession, you enter it because you want to thrive in all areas of your life, in all aspects. At least, I find that’s a common theme when I’m meeting with doctors.

So I really love the coaching for development, and that takes time— time to build a relationship and to actually affect some of that change. Because sometimes that takes a while.

I love working with associate doctors, and I have owner doctors who are bringing me on board specifically to help coach their associates. There’s just so much on owner doctors’ plates these days. So I get to work with associates— and I have a special place in my heart for younger doctors early in their career.

My students at CU, the ones I get to talk to down there— and those just in their first couple of years— I love getting those dentists involved in cohorts. We get them together on calls— usually six or seven of them— and we build a cohort group. We work together for six months, untangling problems and challenges that that cohort faces. Usually they’re zero to five years out of dental school.

It’s great to hear them share information with each other, share best resources, best practices, stories— to help one another. And the greatest thing about those cohorts is these students often become lifelong friends. They build a professional network where they’re supporting each other, sharing the ups and downs of their day, reflecting on what they learn.

Then we invite our cohorts out here to Steamboat Springs— to meet personally, have dinner, ski the mountain, go mountain biking— and really solidify that bond and that relationship. So that’s a lot of fun too.

Those are just a couple of the highlights off the top of my head of some of the work we’re doing.

Ben Tuinei: That’s amazing. Well, it helps that you’re in a good spot. Bring the whole family out, you know what I mean? Which I think we might end up doing here in the next year or so— come visit you out there and spend some time. My son finally got into skiing and snowboarding, and he loves it. So—

Dr. Jeff Grove: I would love nothing more, Ben, than for you to come out with your family. That would be so great.

Ben Tuinei: We will. We’ll plan something— maybe make a fun trip out of it, come around one of your meetings that you’re hosting there.

But Dr. Jeff, this has been such a treat. I know listeners— many of them probably want to know how to get a hold of you. Do you have a website, or an email, or a phone number that anybody can use to contact you?